Hatching and Raising Quail Organically with a Hen Part 2 - Taking you through the first few days

Polly and the quail at three days old and already something of a handful! I kept them in the nest for the first three days, letting them gain in strength and size and because Polly is so trusting and so understanding she complied. This would be against her better judgement because, normally once her eggs have hatched and all the chicks are on their feet a mother hen will be ready to leave the nest and take the chicks out to forage.

To make it easier for Polly to comply, I made sure there was a continual supply of varied foodstuffs and water and of course continued to take her off the nest twice a day. When I took the above photograph they were still all in the nest but sitting in the doorway in full sunlight - getting some rays!

Sitting is easy it's after hatching that the fun starts!

My problem has always been in obtaining organic hatching eggs, so I have had to take what I could get. Most quail are hatched in incubators and to some extent a poor quality shell, due to inadequate diet and lack of Vitamin D from sunlight, isn't that much of an issue. However, an egg that is turned by a hen several times a day and may be trod on as she gets in and out of the nest is a problem. To counter this, I lift my hen on and off the nest, twice a day, once in the morning and once at night. I'm amazed, though I shouldn't be, how careful most hens are with quail eggs and it's usually when I have flustered the hen that I have had broken eggs. With Polly because of the experience with her Mother, who didn't take to the eggs immediately, I put a hen's egg into the nest as well and had an extra broody standing by to take over with it once the quail eggs hatched at 19 days. Seeing them together in the nest really illustrates the difficult task the hen has been given!

I took this shot later when the quail and Polly moved out into the warmest of the Greenhouses (recycled glass and pallet wood). From it you can see the relative size of the Ardenner and my adult quail (behind the compost bag). I had hoped to keep this female quail in the Greenhouse at the same time as Polly so she could integrate with the baby quail but Polly was having none of that and I had to separate them.

Some thoughts about choosing a broody for quail

I couldn't have asked for a better hen to sit quail than Polly our Ardenner bantam but she certainly had her work cut out. If you haven't come across the Ardenner before, as the name suggests, it is an ancient and very rare breed from Southern Belgium.  The larger version had existed for centuries but along with the bantam was almost extinct after the two World Wars, in fact, I have never come across the Standard size Ardenner. The Breed are known for being great foragers, good layers and excellent mothers and I can vouch for all three of those qualities, they are also, in my experience hyperactive, which makes them totally suitable as surrogate Mothers for quail.  At the other end of the scale, as possibly the worst bantam Mother is the Sebright, a race which is reputed for only staying with chicks for four weeks after hatching and I have had experience of this too. However, the Sebright cross bantams make excellent Mothers and the Sebright/Ardenner crosses are fantastic with quail. In particular they are lighter than the Ardenner and also have finer feathering both of which characteristics are a plus when raising quail. 

This is Lucky and her favourite quail chick Pip, they were inseparable and I could free-range Pip with Lucky and know he would always be within a few centimetres of her. As a Sebright/Ardenner cross Lucky was probably half the weight and certainly half the size of an Ardenner. Weight can be a big issue with rising quail, in particular if your hen does not realise how delicate quail are in the first few days of life. Both Polly and Lucky were really good at understanding this, don't ask me how they knew to be very much more careful with quail, they just did. As an example of how incredible mother hens can be, I once had a hen called Dorothy whose chicks use to sit on her back even when she was walking about. One night when they were going to bed, two chicks were still standing on her back as she entered their little house. Before I could intervene, she actually got down and walked in on her hocks because she realised that the chicks would be knocked off her back if she didn't - how did she work that out? This sort of consciousness, which tells her that the chicks were higher than her head, which was level with the height of the door, is quite abstract. Moreover, it was the speed with which she realised what she needed to do, which quite astounded me.

Problems with hatching eggs 

Unless you can not do otherwise, it is best to go and fetch your eggs if you live more than a day's posting from the seller. I have never found eggs which come by post to have a high hatching rate and I have read that after four days the fertility of the eggs starts to diminish significantly. If you think about quails in the wild they can lay and sit very large clutches so the first eggs in a clutch may be over a fortnight older than the last egg laid but that wild quail will be on an optimum diet and living in an optimum environment.

Nutritional problems to watch out for in the first few days

If you've been lucky enough to get hold of certified organic hatching eggs or eggs from a smallholding where the quail are kept outside and on a good natural diet then you won't come across nutritional problems. Eggs reflect totally the health of the bird who laid them. The main deficiencies I have come across are Vitamin B and Selenium, the latter seems most prevalent in domesticated commercial gamebirds in particular quail and peafowl. Vitamin B deficiency is something I've come across before in purchased fertile hens' eggs. A couple of days after hatching the chicks start to go down on one hock, begin to sit down frequently and finally lose the use of their legs and most often their toes curl up, hence the name 'curly toe paralysis'. This condition like many nutritional deficiencies in small growing chicks can be fatal but is easily and quickly remedied by balancing the diet. My thinking is that we are taking a weak chick and giving it a quite energetic and outdoor foraging life, if it was hatching in an incubator and kept in a cage on a chick ration it would probably survive a little longer before the symptoms show. In the life it will have with a Mother hen, these symptoms show quickly. I feed yeast flakes, actually chicks seem to like the flavour but I have gone so far as to sprinkle it onto an egg yolk, another good food for baby quail. Selenium deficiency again affects the nervous system and causes paralysis. The best form of Selenium is the brazil nut, however you only need the tiniest (3-4) fine gratings, as Selenium is actually toxic in large amounts and figuring what that means for a tiny quail is difficult. One way to know when your chicks may be suffering from either of these deficiencies is if you see your mother hen nudging the babies back onto their feet, it means she has noticed they are sitting too long. One of the ways in which hens naturally treat coccidiosis in chicks is to keep them on their feet and moving so that they eliminate the problem as quickly as possible.

A few words about feathers

Sebright crosses have one huge advantage over Ardenners as Mummy Quail in that their feathering is much finer. When a bird goes broody she loses a lot of feathers off the breast so as to be in close contact with the eggs. Some hens, probably due to the added heat involved in brooding and raising chicks may go into a  semi-moult. Even this, however, may still be problematic for quail if the Mother bird is well upholstered with feathers as is the Ardenner. There is a fine line in keeping the quail warm and not getting them dangerously caught up and almost strangled in the feathers. The first couple of days were rather fraught for me when I lifted Polly off the nest in the morning to find the quail entangled in her feathers and hanging by their necks. The problem being, from my observations, is that living amongst the feathers the quail droppings do stick the feathers together is how they get caught as they snuggle into the plumage. With the Sebright-type of smaller, finer feathers this does not occur. However, once I realised this problem could occur I could deal with it. Do be aware however, that this is a serious problem because on one very sad occasion Polly felt the quail dangling at her back and in panic, kicked out and killed it outright before I could release it.

How to avoid those busy hen's feet.

I like to get baby birds outdoors as quickly as possibly, as soon as it hits 16 degrees C. I always tend to start them in a small run, as even at that temperature some baby chicks can still get cold. Sebright chicks in particular feel the cold keenly and they need the mother to be nearby if that happens. A good hen will always sit if a chick starts to try to get underneath her, she instinctively knows it is cold and/or tired. With quail in the past I have bought the outdoors in with a complex set of runs fitted with areas of grass and soil. However since Andy started making Greenhouses, it has given me an ideal place to put the quail in the first few days. The only thing to be aware of is dust baths because that will be the first thing a Mother hen wants to take. If you look at the film at the end of my previous post on quail you will see how I got round this by creating a run within the greenhouse so that the quail and Polly could still see each other whilst she was dust bathing. 

In those first few days in the Greenhouse I still supervised Polly and the quail and they needed to be brought back indoors into their nest as soon as they showed any signs of getting cold. You'll know when this is as baby quail are not shy and retiring when it comes to wanting something, they make an insistent whining noise when they are cold!

They also have an amazing ability to draw attention to themselves by extending themselves to their full height and making a piercing noise.

Something the males use to full effect in adulthood:

Thanks for dropping by and do feel free to share experiences or ask for further information in the comment section. If you have enjoyed this piece and found it useful think about sharing it with your family and friends, on social media and also maybe about joining this blog and/or subscribing to my Youtube, Odysee  or BitChute Channel or even supporting us on Patreon or

It all helps to keep me going!

Until next time, all the very best from sunny Normandie! 

Sue

Part Three of Hatching and Raising Quail Organically with a Mother Hen can be found here

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I had read that for centuries in Japan and China quail eggs had been used in  the treatment of various respiratory diseases and allergies.  Finding no organic eggs on the market, I decided to raise them myself...read more

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Years of selective breeding have not only bred the broodiness out of domesticated quail but also their ability to identify and seek out their own food. read more

A comprehensive guide into the history & use of quail eggs in medicine Part 1

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RETURN TO CONTENTS PAGE
©Sue Cross 2012

Hatching and Raising Quail Organically for hay fever and eczema - Part 1 - Breaking down the cage door.

This is Polly, a rare-breed, organic Ardenner bantam and one of her brood of newly hatched quail. I first started raising quail when we came to live permanently in France some fourteen years ago now. 

Quail Fever - We cured the hay fever and eczema but not our addiction to raising quail

My husband Andy had suffered from hay fever every year since the Summer of 1976. We knew that coming to live a new life in an abandoned field and orchard, would be untenable unless we found a cure. We had already began extensive plantings of so many shrubs, trees and flowers, for our eventual food forest. 

Furthermore, in 1977 Andy had also worked on a machine, using an oil which had caused him to have a contact dermatitis which led on to eczema.

I had read that as early as the twelfth century in Japan quail eggs were being used in  the treatment of various respiratory diseases and allergies. They were also used in traditional medicine in China. We couldn't find any organic eggs so I decided I would have to raise the quail myself.

My first hens, a pair of Ardenner bantams called Chicklette and Pouldini, had been given to us in part payment for looking after a neighbouring smallholding whilst the owners went on holiday. Our Ardenners seemed ideal for the job, they were excellent mothers, foragers, they trusted us and they were very quick in everything they did, a great advantage with  precocious quail.

Why we all need to give quail a better deal in life 

Whilst waiting to get my eggs I bought five quail from a livestock market in a nearby town. It was not initially a happy experience, the quail were totally neurotic when I bought them and equally so in the outside run we had made them. Luckily I had heeded the warnings and made a run with a soft voile top, as at the slightest noise they launched themselves up into the air. Over time however, they became accustomed to their environment, calmed down and began to lay. The one thing we used to love to do was to sit and watch them come out of their little house every morning with a hop-skip-jump and a beat of the wings, full of the joie de vivre. On visiting several places where they raised quail, I soon realised the key to their whole behaviour patterns. Everywhere we went quail were raised inside, on wire, mostly in artificial light and caged with hardly room to move. They were in effect laying machines, fed a high protein grain-based and sometimes medicated feed and with no greenery and certainly with no ghost of an attempt at their natural insectivore diet.

This is Golden Grandma out taking the sun in the little enclosed garden in front of the Bake House. She is four years old, having spent three and a half years with us as part of the flock. I'm happy to say she enjoyed life though she was never quite as tame as any of our home-raised birds. She was the last quail I ever bought,  my own quail having succumbed to a rat attack that same year. I lost the whole flock including our much-loved Flopsy a five year-old 'English white' quail, who would follow me around the garden as long as I had a fork in my hand. GG, when we bought her, was 'living' caged in a garage, most of the other birds with her looked terrible and all showed signs of injury. They had obviously been fighting, I should have just turned away and left but I couldn't, I bought five females in all and this little golden quail was the only one who survived past the first week. The man I bought her from invited us to view his 'exhibition hens', they at least, were out in the open air. I could not comprehend how he could not see what he was doing was morally wrong. Unfortunately he is not the worst. I know of hunters who train their dogs by tying a quail by the leg to a stick in a field and then letting the dog loose to find it. When I remonstrate, I am always told that the dog knows never to touch the quail. There is a mental block with some humans in understanding that birds are sentient beings. They would do well to heed Gandhi's words; "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way in which its animals are treated".'

My First Hatch of Quail Eggs

The hatching of my first ever quail with Chicklette was rather traumatic. I had obtained eggs from two colours of quail 'Isabelle' or 'Gold', (see Granny above) and 'Range' a dark chocolate brown.  Something I hadn't considered but which soon became apparent and was to affect the hatch, was that my Ardenner Mother had a total aversion to mice. In the main most hens love mice, to eat that is. I was right on hand when the quail started to hatch and we were probably more excited than the hen was.

The problems started when Chicklette decided to take a good look at the babies, probably because they were making unusual (non-chick) noises and possibly because they smell different. Normally because she is at her most vulnerable, a Mother hen clamps down upon her chicks as they hatch, making encouraging noises in a low voice, something which would get no response with quail. It is true that some hens reach under and eat the shells as the chicks emerge and thereby remove the evidence of hatching which might attract predators.  However, Chicklette took one look at these quail chicks and suddenly they were flying though the air and I could see she was only throwing out the chocolate coloured ones, which looked uncannily like mice. I gathered them all up and presented them individually, showing her that they were indeed baby birds, and happily she accepted them all back under her wings.


This is Poulie with a hatch of Crested Polish Chicks, she too was a wonderful caring parent. If you are thinking of going ahead and raising quail always chose a Mother hen who has a good track record with raising chicks. Quail need a mother hen who has an excellent understanding of and is quick to notice changes in behaviour. Some mothers are very good at finding food but a quail 'mother' needs to be equally good at recognising the moment the quail need to go back under her for warmth and rest. She needs to stop foraging and 'sit', not all hens are good at this. Cold baby quail make a lot of strange almost whining noises, which can be very disconcerting, a good mother hen responds to this immediately. She will also be the first to notice any nutrient deficiencies, very common in quail from non-organic hatching eggs. If you see her pushing Baby back up on its feet, then be aware she has noticed it sitting down too long. This is the first sign of a Vitamin B and/or selenium deficiency and is very common in domesticated game birds and hence in their eggs. A good mother hen will be watching for this problem in baby chicks because it is one of the more common signs and in fact part of a natural remedy for coccidiosis, that is to keep the baby bird moving and expel the problem.

Despite the initial trauma at hatching, Chicklette went on to form a strong bond with the quail, which allowed her to free-range them in the garden, doing sterling work amongst the bean rows. She stayed with them as their Mother for quite some time, longer than I had expected, I think the size of them fooled her into thinking they were still small chicks, who needed care.

Having cured the hay fever and eczema what next? The symbiosis continues in the Garden. 

After eating those few eggs from our first quail, all those years ago, Andy never developed hay fever. In fact he never had hay fever ever again, nor interestingly enough eczema. Five years ago the nature of the active enzyme, the trypsin inhibitor which effects the cure was finally identified and pills made of quail eggs may now be purchased at organic stores. We certainly owe our quail a debt of gratitude.

When my quail eggs hatched last March I had the luck to film the quail chicks as they emerged and I went on to document their first few days of life with Polly, daughter of Chicklette. In my next Quail Post I will take you through the joys and pitfalls of those first few days, culminating in the quail's first foray into the Greenhouse and the start of their full-time job in keeping down the greenfly, whitefly, black fly and any other nuisances they can help us with.

 

Thanks for dropping by and do feel free to share experiences or ask for further information in the comment section. If you have enjoyed this piece and found it useful think about sharing it with your family and friends, on social media and also maybe about joining this blog and/or subscribing to my Youtube, Odysee  or BitChute Channel or even supporting us on Patreon or

It all helps to keep me going!

Until next time, all the very best from sunny Normandie! 

Sue

Part Two of my series on Hatching and Raising Quail organically can be found: here

RELATED ARTICLES

Taking you through the first few days.

Polly and the quail at three days old and already something of a handful! I kept them in the nest for the first three days, letting them gain in strength...read more

How your hen can bring out the best in baby quail.

Years of selective breeding have not only bred the broodiness out of domesticated quail but also their ability to identify and seek out their own food. read more

A comprehensive guide into the history & use of quail eggs in medicine Part 1

How we cured Andy's hay fever and eczema with a dip into Ancient Egypt and 60's France...read more

A comprehensive guide into the history & use of quail eggs in medicine  Part 2

Now we eat quail eggs for pleasure..here I look in depth at the clinical trials in the 1960s and the posology used then and by us...read more

RETURN TO CONTENTS PAGE
© 2012 Sue Cross

How to care for and keep organic poultry - happy. A holistic approach.

This is Diavolo, he's a Crested Polish Frizzle and he knows more about what he should and shouldn't be eating than any of us ever will.

We Are What Our Hens Eat

In a flower and food forest garden with three hen houses, a mix of hens, cockerels and fantails he and his peers have created a complex hierarchy and designated territorial boundaries based on distinct garden features and specific plantings. The only time when anything has gone really wrong with this balance is when we have inadvertently tipped the scales. Everything I have learned over the past ten years of living with our flock has been achieved by mutual respect, trust and observation. In fact, I often think they now know more about us than we will ever manage to learn about them.

Approaching the frontier. This set of recycled oak gates, which we set up as a feature at the end of a pergola and which mark the entrance to the orchard, have been designated a border by the hens. There are always a few skirmishes which take place from time to time but no actual contact fighting. I am not sure if it is because the land rises here, the physical, although easily negotiated obstacle or the continuation of a large flower border.

Whatever the reason, it is their choice and moreover it works. There is another interesting mores I have also observed. Mother hens with chicks have rights of passage through all areas. All three flocks recognise this and abide by it. Its intent may be to allow the Mother hen a wider area in which to forage for her chicks. In this way, I have concluded that the flock has an understanding of and places a high value on continuance.

I was born in England on a small mixed arable and poultry farm at a time when the Agro Chemical Industry was beginning to dominate the scene and family farms like ours, which were run much in the same way as my great-grandfather had farmed, were beginning to disappear. The Organic Movement, which had started in the 1920s in the UK and was often referred to by the epithet 'Muck and Mystery' was still something ironically, too outré to be considered as a way to farm. After an unhappy decade or so with  the modern methods of 'deep litter' production,  my father gave up farming altogether and went on to pastures new. I always remember the reason he gave me as a child for removing us from what I know we both thought of as an idyllic place to live: "Farming is totally unnatural".

My intended aim whether in smallholding or gardening is to find a model of doing both in the nearest possible way to that in which birds and plants would thrive and survive in Nature. Just as 'weeds' can provide beauty, food and aid pest control in a garden, so poultry can, if only you work with and not against them. You can best do this by allowing them to choose and forage for their diet whilst living in self-governing flocks as they would in the wild. Of course harmony in a garden is different to the Wild, for example the very nature of a limited and enclosed habitat, such as a garden or woodland, is finite and is therefore controlled. However, as long as there is enough space per bird, dedicated areas for vegetable production and a large enough supply of vegetation the system can work. In a food forest garden poultry work to keep down pests, work compost into the soil and generally improve its fertility.

Wild poppies, the most beautiful addition to any garden and with a delicate fragile grace rarely seen in their cultivated cousins. Vegetables in Elizabethan England were the weeds of today, chickweed, nettles, navelwort and Good King Henry. Recently however, these are returning to favour and with them an understanding of how wasteful we have been with our limited knowledge of the edible parts of the cultivated ones.

Going Backwards to Go Forward. 

These are the Landgirls, who helped on the farm whilst my Grandmother was farming. A change of clothing (they are much more chic than us) and this could be my sister and I on our respective smallholdings. It seems passing strange, or maybe not, that after thousands of years of organic farming someone decided we were doing it all wrong and everything had to be changed. Now thankfully, more people are becoming cognisant that food production is one of the most important activities in life. We can live without just about everything, even shelter but we certainly can not survive without good food and clean water. As people begin to re-evaluate food many of us are also doing the same with our lives and returning to the land and becoming self-sufficient. Working and living on the land is perhaps synonymous with doing the same on the sea and it's in the blood, whatever, I certainly never tire of it. It also makes me happy to know that we are giving our animals a good life and they, for their part, are paying us back ten fold with companionship, eggs, food for philosophical musings and hours of entertainment!

Thanks for dropping by and do feel free to share experiences or ask for further information in the comment section. If you have enjoyed this piece and found it useful think about sharing it with your family and friends, on social media and also maybe about joining this blog and/or subscribing to my Youtube, Odysee  or BitChute Channel or even supporting us on Patreon or

It all helps to keep me going!

Until next time, all the very best from sunny Normandie!